TripAdvisor users: London's food's rubbish and Birmingham's boring

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• It tells one more
  
  

  ...about TripAdviser and the other self-appointed experts about travel, transport and destinations than it does about London and Birmingham. London is now an excellent place in which to eat and drink - with a wider variety of pubs and other eating places than just about any other city I have visited. Have these commentators really explored that amazing collection of villages that is London or have they made their judgement on the basis of a couple of meals in the nearest restaurant to the hotel they stayed in, when they had a one-day stopover en route to somewhere else? Birmingham I know less well - but I do know that there are some very interesting places to visit in the West Midlands if one were to become bored with the centre of Birmingham.

  By Richard English, Thursday, July 15, 2010
• Plenty of stories in Birmingham
  
  

  As a travel journalist, I've visited the UK for more than 30 years, but 2009 was the first time I hopped a train from London and settled into Birmingham. From the museums to the theaters--I saw one of the best productions ever of "Cabaret" there--I don't think you could be bored unless you really tried. I stayed in the Back to Backs, a tenement from the birth of the Industrial Revolution, interpreted to the 1870s, and found it one of the best ways to experience a city's past. Ashton Hall, one of England's great Jacobean mansions, is fascinating--right down to the shattered staircase banister that remains from a Civil War cannonball. Birmingham's canals are historic http://tinyurl.com/yc99pnh and the old Museum of the Jewellery Quarter http://tinyurl.com/y85z5wb is nearly as spooky as the Marie Celeste. I was thrilled to take a seat in Britain's oldest movie theater http://tinyurl.com/yf2kzc4 as it neared 100, and to tour the countryside and see the new Elizabethan garden at Kenilworth Castle http://tinyurl.com/ycl9vkz The food? Asha's is the place for diners who love elegant Indian cuisine. Birmingham boring? Not to me--I ran out of time way before I ran out of places I wanted to explore. Betsa Marsh www.Britainonthecheap.com

  By Betsa Marsh, Thursday, July 15, 2010
• Who are these people?
  
  

  Nigel Harris has a point: a biased and non-representative sample from a 'customer' survey really doesn't offer much real information, but it goes deeper than that: who are the people who took the survey? One of the problems inherent with review sites is that whilst we might be able to look at some demographic information (age, gender, a couple, a family, etc.) we don't really know anything about the reviewer and the values on which their reviews or survey answers are based. For that you need a value-based segmentation. As Groucho Marx said 'I don't care to belong to any club which would have me as a member!' Just because you're around 60, have kids, are married, and wealthy doesn't mean you'll have the same values: Prince Charles and Ozzy Osbourne share those demographics! One day we'll be able to filter review sites by people who are really 'like me' becasue they'll not only have done the same things, or be at the same lifestage, but because we've ticked ten boxes and that's identified our values when it comes to travel and leisure.

  By James Elder, Wednesday, July 14, 2010
• So Birmingham's boring? How boring.
  
  

  I find it boring that Birmingham is considered boring. Kicking Birmingham has been a national sport since the industrial revolution, when the city was regularly blasted by the London press as an ugly, worthless blight on the nation - an ugly, worthless blight that just happened to make a massive contribution in driving the economy of that nation. Whatever the city's achievements (and there have been many - in industry, the arts and sport - though you might not be aware of them) Birmingham was bad. It was ugly. It wasn't London. This probably isn't the time or place to go into why a big, powerful and established city like London felt the need to bash Birmingham so relentlessly. Perhaps it felt insecure? Which seems odd, as Birmingham has never even tried to compete with London. No provincial English city ever could. Nevertheless, the portrayal of Birmingham has largely been negative, and at best mocking, since the city first began to emerge as an industrial centre. So it's hardly surprising, when the British public gets told for over 200 years, that Birmingham is ugly/dirty/boring or that its people are stupid/ugly/boring, that the public tends to believe it - whether they've been there or not. Give a dog a bad name, and not only does that bad name stick, but it spreads. People in Europe and the rest of the world start believing it too. And it's getting tiresome. However, the fact that Birmingham is considered boring and ugly by the same people who think London's food is the worst in Europe surely destroys the survey's credibility altogether. Is London's food really the worst in Europe - with all of its Michelin star restaurants and world-renowned chefs, not to mention its huge array of 'ethnic' restaurants and cafes serving food from all over the world? Likewise, Birmingham's food is considered the third worst in Europe. But the Michelin guide certainly doesn't agree (it has three Michelin star restaurants, and may yet get more). Neither do thousands of people who enjoy a good balti - a dish created in Birmingham, which can now be found all over Europe and beyond. As an Englishman living overseas, I've noticed that a lot of people of other nationalities still think England's food is the worst in Europe, and probably the world. Could that be due to its bad reputation - a reputation that has been built up over hundreds of years, but which bears no relation to the modern reality? And in that respect, isn't the world view of English food a little bit like London's - and the world's - view of Birmingham? Give a dog a bad name... Trip Advisor is a good website. It's especially useful for hotel reviews, though not to be taken as gospel. Usually, the people who comment on hotels have actually stayed there, and it isn't hard to weed out the comments left by the hotels themselves. But with surveys like this, it's all too easy to rely on perceived stereotypes when casting a vote than having to call on empirical experience. Especially when those stereotypes are rarely ever challenged in the media, and have become wrongly accepted as common knowledge. Have all the people who think Birmingham is ugly and boring actually been to Birmingham? More importantly, have they been to Coventry?* *Sorry Coventry, but it appears everybody's got to have a dog with a bad name to kick - and you're Birmingham's.

  By James Brennan, Tuesday, July 13, 2010
• London eateries
  
  

  A lot of the places to eat in London do not promote themselves well to visitors. There is much more style over substance. For example, many visitors will want to try out a pub, a chippy and a great bakery for scones and cream teas, BUT are turned off by the following: 1. Sub-standard quality 2. Very limited menu choices 3. Poor customer service 4. Limited hours for food service 5. No place to sit and eat the food (and give the feet a rest) In today's poor economy and as the pub-culture has had to change (no smoking, etc.), it would seem the pubs would want to move forward and be more welcoming. Why can't more of them style their catering to parallel the mouth-watering food-laden sports bars in America, where the food is fabulous, superior in preparation, choice, amounts per/person, and cost? In fact, all great value for money. Why does the food in the UK have to be SO expensive and dull-tasting? Pretentious and tasteless seems to be the style London restrauteurs are aiming for. They are certainly not being realistic about what the travellers are looking for in a meal. Not all travellers are going to use expense accounts to eat out on. Most travellers are looking for delicious food, good atmosphere (whether it's fun, chic, down-home, etc.), great value for money ('˜Will I have to break the bank for a small portion of a circle of stupid-looking meat that's got some kind of coloured gunk drizzled chaotically around it, yada-yada'¦), and pleasant service. Some of the biggest complaints I hear about EVERYwhere in the UK is how long it takes the wait staff to bring the bill (travellers do, after all, have places to get to); takes forever to get another drink, especially if it is not alcohol; no cutlery; nothing to wipe fingers on; exceedingly poor customer service, as if the wait staff would rather not be bothered with any good business at all. And Gordon Ramsey'¦ who the heck is he, and why would I want my family or group of friends to eat at a place where the chef is a serious, arrogant idiot, unless all we came for was to get drunk, in which case taste, civility and real humour wouldn't make a bit of difference, would it? And what is English food really all about, anyway? Because when we go to France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Vienna, Lausanne, even BRUGES for goodness sakes!, we can actually SEE an eating establishment that lets us know its national or regional culinary pride and presents the dishes in a tempting and sumptuous manner. But here in the UK? Puhh'”leezze, it is TRULY embarrassing!! Don't kid yourself. Why can I feed my growing family of five in some great restaurants in America for &#pound;35/meal (tips inclusive) but here in the UK that same meal would cost me &#pound;120 (tips optional)? I went to a Frankie and Benny's and was delighted, because of my travel schedule, to see an American-style '˜brunch' offered on the menu. I know '˜we don't do brunch here', but many of those visitors we wish would eat at our place DO do brunch, and if they have travelled to America, enjoy it. So I ordered the '˜American-style buttermilk pancakes'. Well, GAG! After a 45-minute wait, what came out on the plate to my table were three of the small buttermilk pancakes which I KNOW had been retrieved from a package of Waitrose's pre-cooked, very flat and small buttermilk pancakes. These had been zapped in the microwave and by the time they made it to my place they were so cold they congealed the butter I tried to spread on them. It took the waitress another ten minutes to bring me syrup which had been warmed up. I paid over &#pound;8 to be choked by cardboard. The manager did not even apologise. I have had a stack of real buttermilk pancakes that are light, fluffy and absolutely heaven, hanging off the edge of the plate for the equivalent of &#pound;1.50. And that came with free '˜bottomless' cup of deliciously brewed hot coffee. Point is if a restaurant says it is going to serve '˜American-style' or whatever, it ought to be pretty damned close to the style it brags it can borrow from. So now everyone I know stays clear of Frankie and Benny's (they do not do '˜American-style' very well at all). Also, the promotion of eateries is quite pitiable. Unless travellers are very familiar with the UK, most do not know what the restaurants are like and have little clue as to what's on offer. They do not know that some of our non-descript yet pleasantly turned-out cafes serve wonderful food, coffees, etc. and are great value for money. But they do handily notice Beefeater type establishments because these are the few that are well sign-posted. If they have a family with children, they may be at first relieved to see there is something on offer besides Mickey D's. But many are disappointed because Beefeaters can be notorious for poor quality (meats served very dry, mushy over-cooked veg, dull-tasting fare) and lax customer service. It can take 45-minutes to get the bill taken care of. Visitors might not know how to look for a great chippy (lots of '˜guests' want to try out fish '˜n' chips). Lots of our best chippies are nowhere near anyplace to sit down to eat and enjoy. By the time a table or bench is found, the food is cold and the children are a mess. Access to good, reasonably-priced restaurants is difficult simply because visitors to the UK who are unfamiliar with tea-shops or coffee shops like Costa Coffee just do not know where to look. Wagamamas are hidden underground. It is nice to see menu boards outside an eating establishment. But again, many of these who put the menus out are pricey for a family of 4. And let's face it, after travellers come to the UK from the continent, there is a bit of disappointment. After hoofing it around the sites all day, sometimes a yummy bakery close to a sidewalk coffee shop would be a great relief. But there's no place to sit and be really comfortable and have a great chat or take the time to watch the people go by. Not like in Bruges or Geneva. Bakeries in the UK get knocked off the list straight away because, well, most of the servers are surly and do not want to tell you what something unfamiliar-looking is. RUDE! And if you take a chance, there is nothing served to drink with the sweet you just bought and nowhere nearby to sit and enjoy. I tell people to wait until they get to Scotland. Great food, great quantities, great value and tremendous customer service!

  By J Simmons, Monday, July 12, 2010
• do we take this seriously?
  
  

  So do we take this survey seriously? TripAdvisor receive around 47 million visitors each month across their websites, yet they can only produce a survey with 3,000 views, and how many of them have actually visited these places? If the survey follows the rest of the site then it's possible that these 'views' are not even based on personal experiences. They actively discourage this of course, and while I agree that real reviews are good for raising the bar, they need to be tightly regulated. LateRooms for instance only allow you to leave a review for a hotel once you have stayed there, which means these reviews are accurate whilst being subjective, and we trust them. Birmingham has several Michellin starred restaurants, yet the survey claims Birmingham food is the 3rd worst in Europe. Like any City it's simply rediculous to say "all Birmingham food is rubbish", what does that kind of statement tell us? nothing. There also seems to be more hype around the survey than it deserves, giving them increased publicity which they really don't deserve. In fact you'd be hard pressed to actually find a copy, only reports about it, so who actually does get to read the survey? not many is probably the answer, what most people will read are the headlines re-reporting it with whatever slant they want. So do we care? No I don't think so, I think it's unreliable rubbish designed to be provocative and generate publicity. Vague so called surveys like this do the travel industry no favours at all.

  By nigel harris, Monday, July 12, 2010
• Reality Check
  
  

  I have just seen your feature about London's food's rubbish... As someone who promotes British food I feel that the reality is much better than the one painted. London is now recognised as one of the gastronomic capitals of the world. The variety and value that you can obtain is right up there with the best. Fixed prices menu at good restaurants are all the rage right now. Food chains like Leon, Canteen, Wahaca promote everything from value to using great ingredients. Why don't some of the 3,000 plus people surveyed have a look around at websites like Toptable to find some of the best deals in London. Take some time to visit some London's food hotspots like Clerkenwell and Marylebone and food and farmers' markets. There are some great new cafes in and around Brixton Village and market. If you don't fancy eating at a restaurant try some of the new underground dining clubs. Luiz Hara, known as 'the London Foodie' produces a very good food blog all about these exciting alternative venues. I think the tripadvisor contributors need to take another look at London food eat their words! Adrian Bevan

  By Adrian Bevan, Monday, July 12, 2010